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	<title>Comments for Dude, where is my Kaizen?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.bjoernrochel.de/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.bjoernrochel.de</link>
	<description>Björn Rochel&#039;s weblog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 20:28:50 +0100</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Cutting the fluff from Service registration (or how to do funky stuff with CoC, Castle.DynamicProxy &amp; StructureMap) by Cutting the fluff from Service registration with StructureMap revisited &#124; Dude, where is my Kaizen?</title>
		<link>http://www.bjoernrochel.de/2009/07/24/cutting-the-fluff-from-service-registration-or-how-to-do-funky-stuff-with-coc-castledynamicproxy-structuremap/comment-page-1/#comment-776</link>
		<dc:creator>Cutting the fluff from Service registration with StructureMap revisited &#124; Dude, where is my Kaizen?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 20:28:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bjoernrochel.de/?p=458#comment-776</guid>
		<description>[...] is just a quick update of an older post of mine. Since StructureMap&#8217;s convention API has changed quite a bit, here is the updated version of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is just a quick update of an older post of mine. Since StructureMap&#8217;s convention API has changed quite a bit, here is the updated version of [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on About Me by Ian Battersby</title>
		<link>http://www.bjoernrochel.de/about/comment-page-1/#comment-775</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Battersby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:35:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bjoernrochel.de/?page_id=2#comment-775</guid>
		<description>Bjoern,

Thank you for your tweet reply and kind offer of the updated SM source-code, either option is much appreciated so which ever suits you best (my email above).

I&#039;m currently trying to create named singleton instances for multiple configurations in a multi-tenant architecture, returning an instance based on the current configuration (indicated via HTTPContext) and your pattern looked like an interesting opener to solving it neatly in SM 2.6+.

Thanks again for the kind offer of code :)

Ian</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bjoern,</p>
<p>Thank you for your tweet reply and kind offer of the updated SM source-code, either option is much appreciated so which ever suits you best (my email above).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m currently trying to create named singleton instances for multiple configurations in a multi-tenant architecture, returning an instance based on the current configuration (indicated via HTTPContext) and your pattern looked like an interesting opener to solving it neatly in SM 2.6+.</p>
<p>Thanks again for the kind offer of code <img src='http://www.bjoernrochel.de/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Ian</p>
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		<title>Comment on Plain Old CLR / C# Object by MatthiasJ</title>
		<link>http://www.bjoernrochel.de/2010/02/25/plain-old-clr-c-object/comment-page-1/#comment-756</link>
		<dc:creator>MatthiasJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Feb 2010 10:47:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bjoernrochel.de/2010/02/25/plain-old-clr-c-object/#comment-756</guid>
		<description>I would agree to Bjoern&#039;s statements. POCO is defining a *technical* term, a missing dependency to specific frameworks. It doesn&#039;t make any *conceptual* statement if classes have only state or contain behavior as well (and thus are forming data or domain models). So a (technical) POCO can be (conceptual) anything...

Terms like POCO, VO, BE, domain and data models are often misused, so please don&#039;t promote the confusion.

~ Matthias</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would agree to Bjoern&#8217;s statements. POCO is defining a *technical* term, a missing dependency to specific frameworks. It doesn&#8217;t make any *conceptual* statement if classes have only state or contain behavior as well (and thus are forming data or domain models). So a (technical) POCO can be (conceptual) anything&#8230;</p>
<p>Terms like POCO, VO, BE, domain and data models are often misused, so please don&#8217;t promote the confusion.</p>
<p>~ Matthias</p>
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		<title>Comment on Plain Old CLR / C# Object by Simon Hohenadl</title>
		<link>http://www.bjoernrochel.de/2010/02/25/plain-old-clr-c-object/comment-page-1/#comment-753</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Hohenadl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:33:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bjoernrochel.de/2010/02/25/plain-old-clr-c-object/#comment-753</guid>
		<description>I think we should pay some credit to the history of the word POCO here. Its origins are on the Java side of things: The term &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plain_Old_Java_Object&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;Plain Old Java Object&quot;&lt;/a&gt; was coined to express that an object is not an EJB. That did not mean it cannot have any behaviour, it just meant it does not inherit from any EJB framework classes or carry EJB annotations.
I would still stick with this meaning - whether our POXO runs on the JRE, the CLR or wherever else - and thus agree with Björn: a POCO is one thing, objects without behaviour another.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we should pay some credit to the history of the word POCO here. Its origins are on the Java side of things: The term <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plain_Old_Java_Object" rel="nofollow">&#8220;Plain Old Java Object&#8221;</a> was coined to express that an object is not an EJB. That did not mean it cannot have any behaviour, it just meant it does not inherit from any EJB framework classes or carry EJB annotations.<br />
I would still stick with this meaning &#8211; whether our POXO runs on the JRE, the CLR or wherever else &#8211; and thus agree with Björn: a POCO is one thing, objects without behaviour another.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Plain Old CLR / C# Object by BjRo</title>
		<link>http://www.bjoernrochel.de/2010/02/25/plain-old-clr-c-object/comment-page-1/#comment-752</link>
		<dc:creator>BjRo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:56:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bjoernrochel.de/2010/02/25/plain-old-clr-c-object/#comment-752</guid>
		<description>@Ilker Very thoughtful commentary. I think we&#039;re on the same line with this. 

Funny thing is, I totally agree with @ralf assertion that a lot of the domain models out there are just plain anemic data models and shouldn&#039;t be called a domain model at all. This just hasn&#039;t anything todo with the POCO principle IMHO.

-Bjoern</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ilker Very thoughtful commentary. I think we&#8217;re on the same line with this. </p>
<p>Funny thing is, I totally agree with @ralf assertion that a lot of the domain models out there are just plain anemic data models and shouldn&#8217;t be called a domain model at all. This just hasn&#8217;t anything todo with the POCO principle IMHO.</p>
<p>-Bjoern</p>
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		<title>Comment on Plain Old CLR / C# Object by Ilker Cetinkaya</title>
		<link>http://www.bjoernrochel.de/2010/02/25/plain-old-clr-c-object/comment-page-1/#comment-751</link>
		<dc:creator>Ilker Cetinkaya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:27:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bjoernrochel.de/2010/02/25/plain-old-clr-c-object/#comment-751</guid>
		<description>From my perspective it&#039;s a problem of definition - or let&#039;s better put is as perception - of the term POCO.

While @ralf perceives a POCO to be a &quot;similar&quot; concept to VO&#039;s or DTO&#039;s, @bjoern&#039;s perspective considers a POCO to be an object not being enriched or dependent on any other component or framework. I personally favor to understand a POCO the way Bjoern mentions it in this article.

Although lot of developers use POCO as a synonym for VO or DTO, IMHO it&#039;s not what a POCO actually stands for. The term is an artifact of the ORM problem / design model. If an ORM supports POCO, it usually depicts that the ORM framework is capable to inspect &amp; persist any given CLR object without modifications to the object itself. Given this background, orthogonality is a key aspect of POCO&#039;s.

I tend to get the point of Ralf. He&#039;s just arguing the fact that the&#039;re people out there creating DTO&#039;s or &quot;Entities&quot; with EF or whatever and label those as domain model. This more likely is the viewpoint of an anemic domain model, as far as I understood Ralfs statements.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From my perspective it&#8217;s a problem of definition &#8211; or let&#8217;s better put is as perception &#8211; of the term POCO.</p>
<p>While @ralf perceives a POCO to be a &#8220;similar&#8221; concept to VO&#8217;s or DTO&#8217;s, @bjoern&#8217;s perspective considers a POCO to be an object not being enriched or dependent on any other component or framework. I personally favor to understand a POCO the way Bjoern mentions it in this article.</p>
<p>Although lot of developers use POCO as a synonym for VO or DTO, IMHO it&#8217;s not what a POCO actually stands for. The term is an artifact of the ORM problem / design model. If an ORM supports POCO, it usually depicts that the ORM framework is capable to inspect &amp; persist any given CLR object without modifications to the object itself. Given this background, orthogonality is a key aspect of POCO&#8217;s.</p>
<p>I tend to get the point of Ralf. He&#8217;s just arguing the fact that the&#8217;re people out there creating DTO&#8217;s or &#8220;Entities&#8221; with EF or whatever and label those as domain model. This more likely is the viewpoint of an anemic domain model, as far as I understood Ralfs statements.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Plain Old CLR / C# Object by BjRo</title>
		<link>http://www.bjoernrochel.de/2010/02/25/plain-old-clr-c-object/comment-page-1/#comment-750</link>
		<dc:creator>BjRo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:23:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bjoernrochel.de/2010/02/25/plain-old-clr-c-object/#comment-750</guid>
		<description>@ralf All your assumptions are based on the idea that POCO is tightly coupled to domain (or data) models. In my opinion that&#039;s simply not the case. POCO is a principle which can be applied to all building blocks of a solution. Not just the model. 

Besides, when I say &quot;POCO has nothing to do with behavior&quot; that doesn&#039;t rule out that you can have a full blown domain model WITH behavior AND following a the POCO. What I wanted to say is that in my opinion POCO and the richness /behavior of a domain model are orthogonal concepts. That&#039;s why I disagree with your statement.

-Bjoern</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ralf All your assumptions are based on the idea that POCO is tightly coupled to domain (or data) models. In my opinion that&#8217;s simply not the case. POCO is a principle which can be applied to all building blocks of a solution. Not just the model. </p>
<p>Besides, when I say &#8220;POCO has nothing to do with behavior&#8221; that doesn&#8217;t rule out that you can have a full blown domain model WITH behavior AND following a the POCO. What I wanted to say is that in my opinion POCO and the richness /behavior of a domain model are orthogonal concepts. That&#8217;s why I disagree with your statement.</p>
<p>-Bjoern</p>
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		<title>Comment on Plain Old CLR / C# Object by Sergey Shishkin</title>
		<link>http://www.bjoernrochel.de/2010/02/25/plain-old-clr-c-object/comment-page-1/#comment-749</link>
		<dc:creator>Sergey Shishkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 08:45:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bjoernrochel.de/2010/02/25/plain-old-clr-c-object/#comment-749</guid>
		<description>agreed</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>agreed</p>
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		<title>Comment on Plain Old CLR / C# Object by Ralf</title>
		<link>http://www.bjoernrochel.de/2010/02/25/plain-old-clr-c-object/comment-page-1/#comment-748</link>
		<dc:creator>Ralf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 08:27:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bjoernrochel.de/2010/02/25/plain-old-clr-c-object/#comment-748</guid>
		<description>I don´t understand why we should disagree. You´re saying: &quot;The term POCO itself has nothing to do with behavior itself (at least from my perspective).&quot;

Right! POCOs do not contain behaviour. They´re just data. (Or maybe just trivial behaviour. INotifyPropertyChanged to me is trivial.) Maybe complicated data. In my view POCO classes can inherit from each other and can aggregate others. With POCOs we can build object graphs.

But that´s it. POCOs are not more. But still they are often called &quot;domain models&quot;.

But what makes them so &quot;domain model&quot; like? Because there are classes called Customer or Order? Sure, that´s terms from a problem domain. But then you can´t really avoid using them. So I don´t think they have much distinguishing quality. But &quot;domain model&quot; needs to be distinguished from &quot;data model&quot;. Otherwise the term &quot;domain model&quot; would not make much sense.

That´s why I say: Objectgraphs consisting of POCOs are not &quot;domain models&quot; but just &quot;data models&quot;. &quot;Domain models&quot; are different from &quot;data models&quot; because (!) are about behaviour. So if POCOs are not about behaviour, they can´t define &quot;domain model&quot;. Ergo: they are just &quot;data models&quot;.

-Ralf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don´t understand why we should disagree. You´re saying: &#8220;The term POCO itself has nothing to do with behavior itself (at least from my perspective).&#8221;</p>
<p>Right! POCOs do not contain behaviour. They´re just data. (Or maybe just trivial behaviour. INotifyPropertyChanged to me is trivial.) Maybe complicated data. In my view POCO classes can inherit from each other and can aggregate others. With POCOs we can build object graphs.</p>
<p>But that´s it. POCOs are not more. But still they are often called &#8220;domain models&#8221;.</p>
<p>But what makes them so &#8220;domain model&#8221; like? Because there are classes called Customer or Order? Sure, that´s terms from a problem domain. But then you can´t really avoid using them. So I don´t think they have much distinguishing quality. But &#8220;domain model&#8221; needs to be distinguished from &#8220;data model&#8221;. Otherwise the term &#8220;domain model&#8221; would not make much sense.</p>
<p>That´s why I say: Objectgraphs consisting of POCOs are not &#8220;domain models&#8221; but just &#8220;data models&#8221;. &#8220;Domain models&#8221; are different from &#8220;data models&#8221; because (!) are about behaviour. So if POCOs are not about behaviour, they can´t define &#8220;domain model&#8221;. Ergo: they are just &#8220;data models&#8221;.</p>
<p>-Ralf</p>
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		<title>Comment on ILMerge and Rake go xunit.BDDExtensions by Darren</title>
		<link>http://www.bjoernrochel.de/2009/01/27/ilmerge-and-rake-go-xunitbddextensions/comment-page-1/#comment-745</link>
		<dc:creator>Darren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:35:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bjoernrochel.de/?p=253#comment-745</guid>
		<description>Thanks for posting this, this is exactly what I needed.  I agree -- Ruby is pretty neat, even for a .Net developer like me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for posting this, this is exactly what I needed.  I agree &#8212; Ruby is pretty neat, even for a .Net developer like me.</p>
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